Posted: 08 Aug 2007 at 9:01am
Hello all:

Does anyone know where to get a spinnaker pole for a Yankee Dolphin 24 or the dimensions, so I could build one. Also would like to know to appox. location of the bail on the mast or location of sail track for adjustable pole height and would like any suggestions on running rigging for the chute.
Thanks for any info.


Posted: 08 Aug 2007 at 9:39pm
The Spin pole length (SPL) is 9.0 feet. This is measured when the pole is on the mast ring and is horizontal at a right angle out to starboard or port. The measurement then is from the athwartship centerline of the mast to the end of the fitting. This info is from the ECSA PHRF handicap certificate.

My pole is 8.85 ft measured this way. It is a 2" OD aluminum tube with standard end fittings. Any local mast/rigging supplier could do this for you - get you the tube and you build it yourself.

I have to measure a couple of things and will get back to you on the running rigging set up we have on Marionette. Some of that info is already in Marionette/Restorations.
Ron


Posted: 09 Aug 2007 at 10:42am
Continuing from previous message.... I have a 5’8” ft long T-Track that is screwed to the front of the mast that starts about 12'' from the bottom of the mast.

I'll put a rough sketch and the explanation of how the spinnaker running rigging is set up on the Marionette page - I'll clean it up when I get a chance. Here is a word description:

I use twing lines for jibing and holding the pole down. I tie small rope loops through the bottom of the upper shroud turnbuckles. These loops have a 10” tail so I can adjust the loop distance from the turnbuckle – which I rarely do. The loops are snug to the turnbuckle and the tails tucked up under the turnbuckle boot.

I shackle a small Harken block to these loops and the twing line runs through this block. The twing line has a small Harken block tied to one end, the other end runs back to a deck mounted turning block immediately in front of the winch base, then up to a cam cleat on the outside edge of the coaming. The guy runs through the twing block and is snugged down to the rope loop block. This hold the pole down.

The sheet twing line is free with the block just running free on the sheet. When you jibe the cockpit person/trimmer pulls in the sheet twing bringing the spinnaker clew within reach of the person who is standing in front of the mast. This person unclips the pole from the bale, clips it to the old sheet, passes the pole in front of his body while tripping the release line to the old guy, and clips the pole into the bale. The cockpit person, meanwhile has eased the old guy twing and pulls in the new guy twing right to the turnbuckle. The helmsperson, of course, is timing the jibe so that this all happens smoothly LOL

The set up is easy because the loop block and twing line/sheet-guy block are always together in a coil - just shackle the loop block to the loop , run the twing lines back through their deck blocks infront of the winch pads and up through the cam cleats. Then feed the spinnaker sheet and guy through the twing block.

These rope loops also serve as the ‘padeye’ to which we move the mast end blocks of the vang which holds the boom down and back – a vang preventer.

We almost never use a pole foreguy – maybe if it is really blowing and we have the pole adjusted high. We have a simple system for this – we rope tie a block to the main foredeck cleat and run a line with a snap shackle through it. The snap shackle clips to the lower pole bridle and the line runs back to a cleat on the outside of the coaming.

The spinnaker halyard is led back to a cam cleat on the aft end of the cabin top – starboard. The pole topping lift halyard is led back to an identical cam cleat set up on the port side.

The spinnaker sheet and guy turning blocks are located at the back of the transom deck. These are led back to the winches and then to the Trimmer or to the cam cleats on inside edge of the cockpit. A piece of cake...Smile

Ron


Posted: 09 Aug 2007 at 3:30pm
The Harken Technical Tips section on spinnaker systems is worth checking out. I see they call my Twing lines - Tweaker lines. What do they know...

http://www.harken.com/rigtips/spinnaker.php
Ron


Posted: 10 Aug 2007 at 9:49am
I agree with all of the above, mine is rigged with just minor differences. My foreguy is a block and padeye to the fordeck, more forward than Marionette's (it can also be used as a tack point for a staysail). My twing lines (yes, TWING lines) are led to a block on my sail track, and I also do not use the foreguy much, only if needed to keep the pole from bouncing around. You could set up a block on a padeye wherever works for you typically on or near the outside rail around the widest part of the boat. The length of the pole is important if you are going to race, but not so much if you are just cruising. Having it a bit longer will not hurt if just cruising, but I would not go shorter. You can always shorten it if you need to later. Any local marine store should be able to get what you need. I think someplace like West Marine sells kits as well. You could also try Annapolis Performance Sailing on-line store. Both of the above will have the parts you need. I have ordered from both with no problems. As far as the track length for the inboard end, you might check with your sailmaker. I believe the lowest you will ever need to go will be just above the bow pulpit parallel to the deck. I don't think I have ever gone any higher with the pole than 6 feet or so above the deck, but your conditions may be different and I would still go higher then that with the track. I do recommend a track rather than just a ring for better control of the sail, but if just cruising it may not be an issue for you. Another consideration might be whether or not you have a second ring for a whisker pole like I do, which is maybe two or three feet above the deck.

Yankee Dolphin Hull # 203


Posted: 10 Aug 2007 at 10:33am
Just thought of a couple other things, when deciding where to put your twings, keep in mind their function. They will keep the lead position forward on the guy so there is a downward angle to help keep the tack at the pole and keep the pole from raising upward uncontrolably. They will also keep the guy off the shrouds (can be a lot of pressure) when the pole is all the way forward when reaching. Another way of setting it up is to use a pair of snatch blocks instead of the twing lines and simply open them up to release or return guy. We did it this way on a 40' boat I used to race on. Of course we had a mast man that could easily do this on a gibe. He would open one side and let it out (the old guy), and put the new guy in the other side. This method might be more difficult to use, but easier to install. You can also forget about the twings, and just use a foreguy. Depends on your needs. I think the twing lines are the way to go though.

Yankee Dolphin Hull # 203


Posted: 10 Aug 2007 at 8:16pm
On Marionette our bronze genoa track on top of the toe rail only goes to a point about even with the forward edge of the coaming - this is a problem when close reaching with our 140% in that I can't get the lead block as far forward as I would like - and of course I have no track to which I can attach a twing block. I have often thought I would put on a new section of bronze track forward but just can't stand the idea of putting more holes through the toe rail and that wood clamp and end up with still more weeping bolts, etc

So, the rope loop ties at the shrouds are the answer for us. Its a good location for the guy lead and being able to use them for the vang preventer is a bonus. Also, we have 2 rings as well - once the pole got away from us and the forward end got in the water. The pressure bent the mast ring and we were lucky to have that other ring

Ron


Posted: 11 Aug 2007 at 7:42am
Thanks to everyone for your suggestions; I think there's plenty info to get my spinnaker flying now! A friend suggested buying an adjustable whisker pole, (6' to 16' ) instead of building my own spinn pole. I'm just a cruiser at this point. I guess the whisker pole could be used for the chute or any headsails.


Posted: 11 Aug 2007 at 8:34am
You may have problems using a whisker pole as the bending/compression loads for a chute are pretty high especially for those whisker poles that have a slip ring design. A locking pin design whisker pole would be better, but even so, it might be worth getting some 'free advice' from your local sailmaker

Ron


Posted: 11 Aug 2007 at 2:34pm
I would not recommend the whisker pole. By the time you buy the heavy duty whisker pole you would need for the chute, you could probably make up a spin. pole and get a lighter whisker pole. Also, you can use the spin. pole for both as well, and it would be more reliable since whisker poles are usually adjustable. Alot of pressure on the chute! You also might note that the length requirement of both poles is the some for most racing fleets. If that is a future consideration.

Yankee Dolphin Hull # 203