Posted: 17 May 2007 at 11:18pm
Just wondering what sail combos work well upwind in various wind conditions for the Dolphin. Being overpowered is very slow on this boat! How does this boat do with, say, a 155% and a reefed main? Is it better to keep the full main and a smaller headsail? I am curious which sail should be reduced first. Anyone know the theory involved here? I carry a 155%, a 135%, and a 100%.


Posted: 18 May 2007 at 1:56pm
Mahew
Your message seemed cut off for some reason.I am not a guru on this but these are our basic ground rules on Marionette

1. carry as much sail as you can until excessive heeling - then 1 reef (when this happens depends on how many crew you have on the rail and the wind strength rating on your big genoa. Our 170% is rated for 10-12 knots and will blow out above that. The dolphin has short overhangs and you don't get much added waterline length as you heel - I am not a fan of carrying a lot of sail and driving the rail into the water

2. change at 12 knots or a bit less to the #2 genoa. Ours is a 140% that is pretty heavy and good up into the 16-18+ knots range. When heeling too much go to 2nd reef in main. I would like to add a 2nd tack grommet to this #2 sail about 8-10 inches above the tack, and a new clew grommet about 3 ft up the leech. Being able to reef this sail would increase the sailing range and be a great help.

3. beyond this point opinions vary from:
a) what are we doing out here? (especially when short handed),
b) drop the main completely and carry on with the #2,or
c) change to our stiff, heavy blade type sail (an old Atlantic Class jib with a 7/8 luff)and go back to one reef then 2 as the wind strength increases.

This is now in the 20+ range and probably some pretty mean, steep chop. Pointing too high will lose power and ability to drive through. Have to ease sheets some to keep power and speed up. We avoid conditions beyond these but if caught out would probably drop main competely and carry on with heavy blade.

I hope your post attracts other views and opinions - for you and me.

Ron


Posted: 19 May 2007 at 2:15pm
Thanks for the response. My crew and I are still getting to know this boats limits, and any info helps. I have done a total of three races and have not seen light air yet. So, I am not sure what my 155 and a full main can handle without being over powered. I guess I am wondering if I am better off having a full main and smaller head sail or a reefed main and a larger head sail. I am thinking of the beginning of a race when making sail choices when it is borderline on which sail to use.

The way my 155 is cut it is more of a light air sail. It seems to be cut a bit fuller for more power in light air, so it may max out at around 10. I haven't had a chance to play with it much.

The 135 I just got, had it up the first time the other day. Looks pretty good, but again not much chance to play with it. I am thinking that I might be better off going with the 135 and no reef when it's getting 10+.

The 100 needs to be replaced, its pretty old but it does ok for now. I do need to install a track for an inboard sheet to get it to fly better. Any thoughts on location for a short inside t-track? I am thinking right next to the cabin, about 11-13' from the bow. (About 2-4' behind the mast.)


Posted: 19 May 2007 at 5:17pm
Mahew
A lot depends on how many crew you have, the overall skill levels, as well as the equipment. Unlike the pros who have the skills, sails and bodies to maximize everything, all the time, most of us who are racing an old boat are dealing much of the time with less than a full deck.

If you look up Marionette in the Restorations section you will see that we have an inside t-track for our blade size sail. Its on deck right up against the cabin trunk, about 24 inches long, 12 inches forward of the shrouds and 12 inches back. We like it.

I'd rather start with the head sail conservatively, giving up a little early, and not having to give up a lot with a 'slow' headsail change later. Having a boat that is severely over powered is slow. The wind is often up and down and its a lot easier to reef and unreef the main than deal with headsail changes. Of course if the winds drops you are toast.

If its 10 knots and going to increase I go with my 140 and I don't give up much by keeping the 170 in the bag. With the 140 I can reef, double reef, and drop the main and still keep the boat moving well, keeping people on the rail and off the foredeck - which is slow.

If its blowing 14, with the 140 up I'd probably have to reef once anyway, so I'll start with the blade and a full main, reefing the main as the wind goes up.

Well, that's it for now, I have to take a call - the guys in Valencia are calling again...

Ron


Posted: 19 May 2007 at 8:46pm
Well, you confirmed what I was thinking. I guess I just have a hard time thinking conservatively sometimes! It is easy to sit home and think about it but when I get out there....

Only having a single reef, I should learn my lesson! When I spoke with the sailmaker we did not think there was much of a need for a second reef in my racing area. That however could change, depends on what I find while racing this season.

I was thinking a foil might be nice for simplifying headsail changes, but not having one has some nice advantages too.

Any way, I digress.

So, you tend to put the blade up at 16-18? Are you reefing the main at that point? (given the normal state of being undercrewed!) Or can you carry it a bit higher? Our normal crew is two of us, but when the weather is nice and the wind is light the girls might come along to soak up some sun! Of course when it is really blowing and i can use some extra railmeat, they are nowhere to be found! Such is life and the ways of a wife!


Posted: 19 May 2007 at 9:19pm
If at the start the breeze is 10-12 knots and expected to go higher fairly soon we start with the 140 and a full main. Then as the wind goes up and heeling becomes excessive we single reef, then double reef, then eventually drop the main altogether and sail on the jib.

If at the start the breeze is 13-14 knots and expected to go higher fairly soon we start with the blade and a full main. Then as the wind goes up and heeling becomes excessive we single reef, then double reef, then eventually drop the main althogether and sail on the blade.

A consideration is whether you are racing in the spinnaker class or a non spinnaker class. The above tactics work well, I think, in spinnaker class which is usually what we race. In cruising classes or non spinnaker, these tactics are problematic because you might be under powered downwind. This aversion to changing headsails (probably a bit overblown here) tends to make one start with the bigger jib and keep your fingers crossed that the breeze does not come in big time before you reach the weather mark.

Ron


Posted: 20 May 2007 at 7:27am
Is there an instrument that accurately predicts what the wind will do.....say a crystal ball.... or something???? LOL Perhaps it should be a new crew position... The Scryer... "hey Madame Fortuneteller, what's the wind gonna do between the start and the first mark???" Ah, if only....

I was thinking spinnaker class, I think in non spinnaker I would carry the largest head sail I could upwind with a reefed main. Yes, I have an aversion to changing headsails, it is probably a bit overblown here, but it is slow with hank on sails and if it can be avoided, I certainly would. I think what you have given here is a good guideline, and I for one thank you for it. There are of course many variables, but a good starting point is helpful. As the season progresses I will adjust for what works for me.

As a side note, I have to admit I love racing this boat! A lot more fun than the 40 footer I have crewed on for several years. Less crew, less work, and much more relaxed (less yelling). I am primarily a foredeck guy and driving the boat is a new experiance for me. I now see what is going on around me. On the bigger boat, while fun and all, I was always so busy on a wednesday night race that I would miss what is going on around us. Often I would finally get a chance to look around me, look out and see the RC boat. Always seemed to be a chute to pack, a pole to re-rig to the other side of the boat, a staysail to put up or take down, or if nothing else a spinnaker to trim beacause we are shorthanded. Of course I can't say I am a great helmsman or tactician, but that is a topic for another day!


Posted: 02 Jun 2007 at 7:12am
Another question for upwind sailing, just wondering what kind of boat speed you would expect to see in different wind conditions? I have not seen light air conditions on a race yet, but in the heavier air I have been seeing (#2 or #3 headsail with full main) it just doesn't seem like I am going as fast as I should.


Posted: 02 Jun 2007 at 2:39pm
Another question for upwind sailing, just wondering what kind of boat speed you would expect to see in different wind conditions? I have not seen light air conditions on a race yet, but in the heavier air I have been seeing (#2 or #3 headsail with full main) it just doesn't seem like I am going as fast as I should.

Hi Mahew
For some reason your forum posting was cut off after the first line. I have copied it here. I'll check into the problem

Its hard for me to answer - and you will not see my name anywhere as an expert.... The boat's hull speed is 5.7 knots. In the heavy air you have you probably have some chop which will slow you down, unless you have a lot of weight on the rail and can power through.

Maybe you are heeling a lot which is slow. In these conditions I ease off the sheets a bit and stop trying to point, working the traveller, and working the boat in the waves - heading up and easing off so that waves/chop don't stop/slow you. You might do better with a reef than a full main.

Your sails may be old, blown out and too full, adding to heeling forces and not giving you any power upwind. You need 'flat' sails in these conditions. Make sure your main is flat by getting the outhaul tight and the luff tight.

Your rig trim might be off with a sagging forestay - so if you have an adjustable backstay you need to crank in on it.

Do you have excessive weather helm in these conditions? If yes, ease the traveller down. You might play with raising your centerboard a bit to see how that affects your helm.

If you are using your number 3 is it sheeted to a block on the rail? Can you narrow up the sheeting angle by sheeting it inside the shrouds?

Overall, in my opinion going fast outranks pointing in the conditions you descrbe. Once you have the boat going fast (remember, 5.7-6.0 beating is fast in a Dolphin) then you can try to point higher, pinching up a little when you can and driving off when you can't.

Ron


Posted: 14 Sep 2007 at 8:31am
Hi mahew,
For this ,You mind sharing that on splashvision.com.I go there a lot and I am sure the guys over there would really getting a good information about its topic.


Posted: 14 Sep 2007 at 11:00am
Originally posted by dolphinos57:
Hi mahew,
For this ,You mind sharing that on splashvision.com.I go there a lot and I am sure the guys over there would really getting a good information about its topic.

New Post Content:
Share what exactly?
-M.